Pat Sabiston is passing on her grandma magic as a successful author, motivational speaker, writing instructor, and proud great-grandmother. Through her work, she encourages other elders to share their rich legacies of wisdom and life experiences with future generations, offering lessons to learn from and lean on. With Pat’s warm humor and insightful anecdotes — including the inspiration to write her recently published children’s book, Can’t Never Could — this episode will leave you eager to go “totally unplugged” at Gram’s Camp!
For more information about Pat Sabiston, visit https://patsabistonauthor.com/ and find her book Can’t Never Could on Amazon here.
TRANSCRIPT
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Welcome to Grandma Magic, a podcast from the Grandmother Collective.
We are a nonprofit organization that supports and advocates for a world where a grandmother’s power is seen, cultivated, and activated for positive change. The Grandma Magic podcast is an opportunity to learn more about the unique roles that grandmothers, aunties, and other older women around the world play in advancing positive social development by talking to and learning from grandmother changemakers.
We hope this series inspires you, brings you joy, and helps you recognize the enduring magic and wisdom that comes from grandmothers everywhere. My name is Lynsey Farrell, and I’m your host. Today, we’re excited to introduce Pat Sabiston, a much sought-after author, motivational speaker, and writing instructor.
Pat has published books, essays, short stories, articles, and interviews. Her work has been featured in notable publications like the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, The New York Times, Asbury Park Press, Small Press Magazine, NPR, and the Southern Poetry Review. Pat is also the owner of a marketing and public relations firm in Panama City, Florida, and regularly contributes to Christian magazines in the state.
Her first children’s book, Can’t Never Could, was written especially for her great-grandchildren. Pat, we’re so delighted to have you with us today.
Pat Sabiston: Well, I’m happy to be here. This is such fun.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yeah, let’s have fun!
Pat Sabiston: Let’s do it.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): You sent me the book, and my seven-year-old daughter read it to me immediately in the car after we picked it up at the post office. I’m so delighted we were able to get you onto the podcast to share more about the book and your incredible life.
Pat Sabiston: Well, thank you so much for having me.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Okay. So, as I always do, we really believe that grandmothers are culture keepers — not just culture keepers — they transform our culture in so many positive and wonderful ways. So, we’ve been asking everyone: what is a tradition, ritual, or important value that you want to make sure you’re passing down to future generations, and why?
Pat Sabiston: Well, you know, it’s interesting that you just used the word “value,” because I printed up our family values for my family and encouraged them, when the girls got married, to establish their own family values. And then the second thing, because I’ve got three things I wanted to share: the second thing was at Thanksgiving, I started a journal 12 years ago.
Instead of going around the table and asking everybody what they’re thankful for, I put a little pad of paper down, and they think about it, write it, and sign it, and those go into the journal. And that has been amazing because some of the family members are no longer with us. One of them was a grandmother, and I’ve still got her writing and her thankfulness.
But the third thing is “Gram’s Camp,” and I want to encourage every single grandmother that listens to this to start a Gram’s Camp. I had my great-granddaughters for several days, almost totally unplugged. We did fun things without any digital stuff going on. Those are my three things that I hope get passed down.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Are you doing Gram’s Camp every summer?
Pat Sabiston: Yes, ma’am. We started it this year, and they cannot wait.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): So this is the first year?
Pat Sabiston: And I didn’t kill them. It was amazing!
Lynsey Farrell (Host): That’s really neat. I need my own Gram’s Camp. I wish somebody would let me come and stay at their house and entertain me!
Pat Sabiston: You’re more than welcome. Come on down to the beach! Ha ha ha ha ha!
Lynsey Farrell (Host): So, Pat, I want to get to your book, but first I want to understand who you are. You’ve got this really creative background. What sort of life trajectory led you here?
Pat Sabiston: Someone told me one time that I would become a writer when they became a jet pilot. So, my comment back was, “Gentlemen, start your engines.” Because my father told me, “Sweetheart, no offense, but writing is an avocation.” I wanted to go to college for journalism. My mother said, “Nope, you’re going to business school.” So, I can type really fast. But when my girls were little, I went into the basement, and I taught myself how to write. The resources are there. I know a lot of your grandmothers, I’ve heard them say, “Well, I didn’t get to go to college.” Well, I’ve only got an associate’s degree. If you have a dream, don’t let anybody steal it from you. You’re never too old to think of a new dream.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): So you balanced teaching yourself a new skill with a business. That’s really hard. Writing is not the easiest business to make a living and build a career from. And you did that while balancing motherhood?
Pat Sabiston: Yes, ma’am, I did. While they were napping. The only glitch I had was when they were supposed to be napping, one day they snuck out of the house and went to a neighbor. And the neighbor called me and said, “Hey, you missing anybody?” That was the only glitch I had. But yeah, I knew eventually I wanted to own my own marketing and PR firm, so I took courses, bought books, and just studied. There’s a magazine called Writer’s Digest, and I followed their instructions. I mean, it’s not that hard when you apply yourself.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): And so what did the trajectory look like? Did you start submitting writing places or pitching to newspapers? What was it like?
Pat Sabiston: All of the above. Yeah, within the first six months of starting, just following instructions, I published my first short story, and three months after that, I published — nationally — my first article. I was married to someone who moved often because of their career, so every time I landed in a city, I’d get a job with a magazine, newspaper, radio station, or TV station. And I got on-the-job training, which was just invaluable. My daughter took a marketing course one time and said, “Mom, you’re not going to believe what they said about marketing.” And I said, “Well, what they’re teaching you is theory. Now, let me tell you what reality is.”
Lynsey Farrell (Host): So I used to tell my students back when I was teaching, “You have to put yourself in all the spaces so you can learn all the things.” It sounds like that was your approach — you were so hungry for it that you just really wanted to be anywhere people were telling stories and creating.
Pat Sabiston: I think “hungry” is a good word, but I would even change it to “famished.” It was a desire that God placed in my heart. And you know, when God places something in you, you cannot not.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): All right. So now tell me about your new book. You wrote Can’t Never Could, which is a children’s book. What were you hoping to achieve?
Pat Sabiston: It was kind of by accident. It happened during COVID-19, and the majority of my business was medical, so during COVID-19, my business was dead in the water. I asked God, “What do I do now?” And I really thought He was going to say, “Finish that novel,” because I have a novel that I’m writing. Instead, He impressed upon me to write a children’s book. And I went, “I don’t know.” Well, He had me remember: I teach a class at the college for seniors on how to capture their life stories. One of the exercises I have them do, and I work alongside them, is to write a letter to a grandchild they may never meet. That letter goes into a time capsule that’s opened when the grandchild turns 18. The book was outlined in the letter I wrote for my great-grandchildren’s time capsule.
I decided to hybrid-publish it, and interestingly, my great-grandchildren are exactly the age of their mother when this story happened.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Don’t give away too much — so everyone will buy it!
Pat Sabiston: I don’t care; I’ll give it away! Well, I will tell you: my husband’s daughter — I’m in a second marriage — was a single mom. She didn’t know me that well, and her granddaughter didn’t know me that well. But she was called out of town on a business trip and asked, “Can you please keep Brandy?” I thought, “Okay, I’ve raised two girls, I can handle this.”
But when Brandy came to me, being from a single-parent home, she was very insecure about a lot of things. I fell back on what my grandmother always said: “If you say you can’t do something — mm-mm, can’t never could.” So I started saying that to her, and by the time she went home, she was sure of a lot of things. I hope your daughter will be sure of a lot of things too, and I hope you use that colloquialism. But there are two things, really, that I want to bring forward that have been distressing for me and are part of the impetus behind the book.
Little girls lose their self-esteem by the age of nine. And just the other day, I read that children between the ages of 10 and 24 are committing suicide at higher rates than ever because they’re losing hope. I’m not downing parents — please, please hear me. Parents are busy, and I realize that. But grandparents are in the unique position to not only hear them but share experiences with them. I think that puts us in a very unique position. If we understand what the children are going through, we can be there. We can step into the gap where the parents might not have time or the ability. We can be there for them.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yeah, there’s that separation, a lack of multi-generational connection, for sure. We’re seeing that everywhere around the world, not just in the U.S. Loneliness and isolation are plaguing most places. One of our partners, Cogenerate, calls it “age segregation” — we’ve really created areas where only older people go and only younger people go. We’ve accidentally structured our society so that we’re not having those serendipitous, spontaneous connections and conversations that we once had across generations. So, I think you’re really right to point that out.
Pat Sabiston: But people also have to be intentional, Lynsey.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yes.
Pat Sabiston: I intentionally have different pods of friends. The vast majority of them are younger. They help me understand technology — headsets, microphones, all of that. They keep me young, and that’s who I hang with. Because I will tell you another disturbing thing: nowhere in the Bible is there the word “retirement.” And I will not retire. I have had people — I’m trying to become unoffendable — but I’ve had people say to me, “When are you going to retire?” And I’m going, “Never. I will never retire.” Because the minute you quit, and I’m saying this to men and women, the minute you quit on life, your brain begins to atrophy. And that’s not okay. We can always learn something new, do something new. The best way out of isolation is to help somebody else. And that’s what your group is doing. They are reaching out to them, saying, “Hey, you’re still alive. If you can still breathe, you have value. You have purpose.”
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I’m interested in two things based on what you said. First, what are you doing to find people from different generations to hang with? I know that’s a real challenge I hear from people. And second, what has changed for you as you’ve aged?
Pat Sabiston: Okay. Where do I find them? They’re everywhere. You have to be intentional and look for them. I’ve been known to walk up to somebody at a chamber event, social event, or church, and say to someone half my age, “You know what? I love the way you dress. Can you help me with my style?” People want to give you a part of who they are. You just have to be intentional and keep your eyes open. They’re out there.
And I literally have pods of people. I have my writer friends, who are mostly young. I have my friend-friends, my church friends — I have all these different pods. But I think one of the most important things, Lynsey, that has helped me — well, let me get to the bottom line. I’ve had age discrimination used against me, okay? And it hurt. It was a long-time client. But first of all, I considered the source, and then I pivoted. My business had to change. It had to change because of COVID, but I pivoted. I used to be doing a lot of brochures, websites, TV scripts, and radio scripts. Well, look what’s happened to TV, radio, and brochures. When was the last time you saw a brochure? Now, I do training. I write training for clients. And the neatest thing is when you give people information they can really use, it affects their daily lives, and they listen to you. Your gray hair builds credibility. They think, “Oh wow, she’s talking about something she knows about, something she’s lived.” I think that’s more important. We’ve lived a lot of life. And it’s important for people to understand: you might not have gone through this yet, but you will.
That was something my grandmother did for me. My dad said, “I hate to tell you this.” When I went through my divorce, he said, “You’re going to have to tell your grandmother — my mother. I’m not going to tell her.”
Lynsey Farrell (Host): How old were you?
Pat Sabiston: Thirty-five. So I went into her living room and told her. I said, “Grandmother, I’m so sorry.” I was just crying. “I’m so sorry, but I’m going through a divorce.” She asked me a couple of pertinent questions — which will go unmentioned here — but at the end of the conversation, she said, “Listen. Look at me.” She took my hands, looked me directly in the eyes, and said, “Buck up, baby. You’re made of better stuff.” And she knew what she was talking about. She had been widowed twice before my dad started school.
And it was interesting because she was an entrepreneur, and I became a business owner. She was on the school board — I didn’t know this — and I got elected to the school board. She and I kind of walked the same journey together, and I didn’t even realize it. She taught a Sunday school class called the Mary and Martha class. I teach a Sunday school class. So I’m not even sure that part of the DNA doesn’t meld. I feel like not only was she a part of me in her beliefs and everything she gave me, but she’s in me. She’s part of my body. So part of that DNA had to transfer somehow. Don’t you think?
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I have many moments, especially with my mother’s mother, who died when I was 14, so I didn’t get enough time with her on this planet. But she was very adventurous — my mother was born in Venezuela. My grandfather was a geologist, and they were in Venezuela and then in Libya. I spent about a decade in East Africa as a young adult. The adventure bug, or whatever, definitely comes from that side of my family. Then my grandmother was widowed, and I’m also a single mother. And just as you’re saying, there are these moments where I think, “Wow, how did Grandma deal with these things?”
Pat Sabiston: That reminds me of something funny. In that same conversation with my grandmother, I was concerned about childcare because I had two little girls. I asked, “Grandmother, what did you do about childcare?” She reared back, looked at me, and said, “Childcare? I told the boys, when they got out of school, to run as fast as they could away from the bullies and hide under the house.” And I just died laughing. Of course, she didn’t have childcare — social services wasn’t even a name back then! So she told them to hide under the house until she got home from work.
When she died, I did a document for all my cousins. They said, “When did you get this information?” And I said, “Did you all not talk with her?” They said, “Actually, no. We were told to go in, sit down, shut up, and let the adults talk.” And I think that’s another thing — the whole idea of children being seen and not heard. No. Grandparents want to engage with them. Let them speak.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yeah. Well, I’m glad you had that opportunity. And to have a grandmother at 35 — I’m also quite jealous. I didn’t get to spend that long with my grandparents. So, we’ve been talking about your recognition of what has happened as you’ve aged, your pivoting, your decision not to retire. If you think about the role that older women play beyond the family, what are you seeing in your world or in the work that you’ve been doing? Do you think they hold a unique opportunity to drive the kind of larger social changes we need?
Pat Sabiston: I mentioned to you about teaching a course at the college called Education Encore, and it’s for seniors — people 55 and older. As I teach them to capture their life stories, this is what’s come out: it’s almost as if there’s a dormant seed in their lives. They’ve been so busy with life up until this point, and a lot of them are widows or widowers. It’s like this new chapter is opening up to them, but until they start “gardening” their brain, they’re not even aware of what’s in there. Once they take time to spend in solitude, to think, they begin to see what they still want. If they’re still breathing, are they going to just become a couch potato, or are they going to leave a legacy? You know, in wills and things like that, people want to leave furniture, china. Well, nobody wants it.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I just inherited my great-grandmother’s china, and I’m still feeling it. I’m so thrilled — my aunt gave it to me. I’m very thrilled! But yes, I understand — nobody wants it.
Pat Sabiston: Nobody wants it, but they can leave a legacy. I think at this point in my life, I’m more excited about the future. Even in this chaotic world, there are so many things I still want to do. I’m going to finish that novel. I will finish that novel. But there are so many other things. I looked the other day in that storytelling group you all are leading, and first of all, I want to give you some kudos. I don’t know where this idea came from, but it’s a brilliant concept because you’re opening up avenues for women that didn’t have the roadmap. We have listened to them say, “Well, I don’t have a college education,” or “I never had children.” It doesn’t matter — you have wisdom, you have knowledge, you have life experience, which is more valuable than anything. You’ve done an amazing thing, and I want you to know, my young friend, I’m proud of you. I’m proud of what you’ve birthed. It’s an amazing concept, and I see big things on the horizon for the group.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yeah, I mean, for me, capturing the nuance and diversity of ways to live in the world is very important, especially now when algorithms are feeding us the same narrative and message constantly. Diversity — which, when I was in college in the late ’90s, we used with celebration, really trying to understand it — and I’m also an anthropologist, so I care a lot about cultural diversity. But it’s not just diversity in the neighborhood or communities we live in. People have navigated very different lives. And if you don’t see yourself in one person’s story, you’re going to see yourself in another, or at least in a piece of their story. The more we open those dialogues and capture those narratives, the less alone we feel, the less odd, the less strange, and maybe the more connected we feel.
Pat Sabiston: It’s humanity to humanity. After we got hit by Hurricane Michael, which was a Category 5 storm that absolutely destroyed our community — well, you want to talk about diversity? When you have nothing and you walk outside your home and meet people of different colors, theologies, everything — but you’re all just trying to survive — it brings us all together. And then, diversity doesn’t have the power. Because we’re all one — we’re humanity, just trying to survive. You’re seeing it right now in the North Carolina and Tennessee mountains.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I saw something on the news today about a couple who own a brewery. There are a million breweries in Asheville. They were saying, “We’re going to need a lot of help from a lot of people for a long time.” In our American culture, we’re taught not to ask for help and to fear our neighbors. It’s profound that, during these times, you really see whether your community is resilient and whether people know how to help.
Pat Sabiston: They’ve got mule trains. I love how we’re getting back to the basics. They’ve got pack mules going through those mountains, and I love it. One woman said today — and I’m thinking about this for my grandchildren — that they were stuck and couldn’t get out, so she’s going to give them two things to keep in their car: a paper map and cash. Just keep them in your car — you never know when you’re going to need them. And you know, it’s that knowledge of getting back to the basics. They had credit cards — nope, no credit cards. You need cash. And, oh yes, a foldable map. Good luck getting it folded back together after you’re done, but it’s useful. It’s kind of like a roadmap for life, isn’t it? It’s getting back to the basics. I so want us to simplify — just simplify our lives.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I know that’s something our grandmothers are constantly telling us. Young people will say, “We did this work on intergenerational communication,” and they’ll say, “I want to go back to a time before I had a cell phone in my pocket.” What would that look like? Now they even have cafes where you lock up your phone when you enter so you can spend an hour or two unplugged. I guess you could also go to Pat’s house and go to Gram’s Camp and do the same.
Pat Sabiston: Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I was watching an older movie the other day, Eat, Pray, Love, and at one point she sat down on the floor, eating a meal, and said, “The sweetness of doing nothing.” I think that’s what people need to do in a week. God told us to keep the Sabbath. Keeping the Sabbath meant doing nothing. Well, I’ve just started doing that now. It’s harder than you know because Sunday used to mean gearing up for Monday — making a to-do list, doing laundry, getting ready. Well, no. Stop.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): You’re not doing laundry on Sunday?
Pat Sabiston: No more. Nope. I enjoy the sweetness of doing nothing. And I think you look at parents — they’re on the soccer field, they go to early church, then there’s that science project due tomorrow, but no poster board, and oh, we ran out of milk. Somebody put the cereal box back empty. They’re driven. I had to remember to quit striving. Quit and enjoy life. Stop. Pause.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I was reminded of that during COVID. As stressful as it was — being trapped in a house with a three-year-old was challenging — I definitely took a long time not getting back to overscheduling weekends, not always having somewhere to go or something to do. COVID did pause me and shifted some of that, but it’s sneaking back.
Pat Sabiston: Well, that’s why I said, “What are your family values?” If you can crystallize what your values are, you build your life around them.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I had a friend who used a family motto.
Pat Sabiston: Okay.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Like “roots and wings.” Their family motto is “roots and wings.” And I was always jealous. Why didn’t I have a family motto? But values might be more my stride.
Pat Sabiston: Yeah, it’s deeper.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Yes, you have to think, what are our values? We’ve lost touch with that — our country has lost touch with our values.
Pat Sabiston: Yes.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): All right, so Pat, what’s next? Are you writing another children’s book?
Pat Sabiston: No, my two daughters said, “You have some grandsons, you know,” but Can’t Never Could is for boys and girls. But no, I really do think I was led to write that book for a reason. I have a trilogy I want to do, and that’s the next thing I want to work on. Writing is part of who I am — it’s what I’ll always do. Capturing stories like we’ll be doing at the Grandmother Collective is going to be great. I just find that to be wonderful.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Well, I had a lot of fun chatting with you today, Pat.
Pat Sabiston: It’s been great! We ought to do this more often!
Lynsey Farrell (Host): I know! You’re made for it. And thank you so much. Where can people find your writing or your books?
Pat Sabiston: They can go to www.patsabistonauthor.com. The book is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and WestBow Press. And of course, me! Haha! I have my website, and I will actually inscribe it for them and send it to their little girls or boys.
But I want to leave you with one thing about the book that I found so interesting. It came from a grandmother. I was at a show, and she came up to my table — she was older than me — and asked, “Tell me about this title.” I said, “Well, it’s what my grandmother said to me, but I think it came from World War II when we were doing Victory Gardens.” She shook her head, “Uh-uh.” And I said, “No?” She said, “No, ma’am. My grandmother said it to me.” So I wrote the Library of Congress and asked when the phrase came into print. It came into print in the 1800s, which means verbally — because verbal always precedes — it’s a southernism that likely came over from Scotland or Ireland to the Carolinas. “Can’t Never Could” has been instilled for generations. I want people to keep it up — give those kids the knowledge that they can do whatever they choose to do.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Beautiful, Pat.
Pat Sabiston: Thank you.
Lynsey Farrell (Host): Thank you for sharing.
Pat Sabiston: You’re welcome.
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